( Forthrightness is practical, although she is aware that the furthest end is a considerable leap. )
Multiple points, and I know not if the ultimate end is one that would be dismissed outright were I in my past state.
( With emotions, feelings. She can logically approach concepts, however, logic is not able to track all nuances. )
The recent survey on how best to accommodate rifters in the case of their passing overlapped with my efforts to advance my own learning, and craft materials to better assist Doctor Strange with explaining required care and training others.
( Having this conversation alongside a literal attempt to render musculature in clay seems appropriate. )
I questioned first if such efforts would be advanced if members of Riftwatch were willing to authorise, in the case of their passing, use of their remains for study, whether native or rifter. However, I recognise that this could be an inherent violation of cultural needs, and am reminded of times past when we spoke on ethical violations conducted with the justification of advancement in your world. Learning first of ethics in other worlds seemed the necessary first step.
( Herian is very still. )
There is danger in being without sentiment and emotion. Logic would suggest that using remains is practical and justified, that protest could be dismissed as the study would support the protecting of lives in the future, yet I would not have drawn this conclusion, were I not as I am.
[She considers how to arrange her thoughts for a moment.]
In the world I come from, and I'm pretty sure the one Strange comes from, we've learned a lot from the remains of people who have died. I'd be shocked if no one in Thedas had ever tried it, but given the reach of the Chantry, I suspect it's been pretty secret. That said. Especially for people with anchor shards, there could be some upsides.
Assuming it's something Strange thinks would be practically useful, which I'd want to check with him before we even bring it up, I think the way you've got to approach it is around informed consent, yeah? The assumption is we don't do it unless someone freely says it's alright without any pressure. And I think for you, it sounds like the thing to be mindful of is not trying to like ... argue them out of their feelings or beliefs. Just because you see the logic of it doesn't mean everyone else needs to be convinced at any cost. Right?
[The question is a real prompt, Cosima studying Herian's face to try to gauge if she's made her point clearly.]
( For all that flatness in her tone, the absence of the emphatic, she understands the message conveyed. )
Logic is not an objective truth that outweighs autonomy.
( Gaze impassive, she gestures to the sunburst brand. )
This was the result of perceived logic. Perspective and agenda can warp logic and see fact misapplied or poorly represented, akin to the need for blind studies and placebo. Our duty is to ensure knowledge is not prioritised over autonomy.
( A beat. )
Comparing such studies to blood magic to stir fear would allow the Chantry to strengthen their position across Thedas; more than like there are those holding power who would embrace such tactics. Implications on how enemies of Riftwatch could undermine us should be weighed, as well, especially where the involvement of shards is concerned.
Yeah. That's it exactly. [Maybe a bit softer after Herian makes the parallel with her own forced Tranquility clear, but Cosima's not so shaken that she doesn't continue.]
The blood magic point is fair. I think it's probably something worth letting Diplomacy weigh in on, though right now that necessarily means the entire division. My own instinct is that we should get buy-in from outside the organization, maybe. Promises to share what we learn with allies, for example or ... I worry that if we just hide it, that's going to leave us vulnerable if it leaks. On the other hand, I don't have the same knee-jerk reactions to things that seem like blood magic but aren't, so maybe other people will have a better sense how that would go over.
We know the Venatori have been experimenting on any shard-bearer they can get their hands on for years. Your point is clear that we have to know, going in, not only how we're different but how we're going to present that difference if we need to.
( Cosima had been in the number taken. The memory is foggy, like frost crawling over a window pane. Objectively a negative occurrence, from memory, an event that caused immense fear and inflicted horror for many. How much she truly remembers, then, could be debatable. )
Drawing ire through misunderstanding or agenda would undermine the war against Corypheus, as well. In your opinion, do the potential benefits of such a project justify the risks and resources required?
I'm generally going to be in favor of asking a question and seeing what the answer is, rather than not asking it at all. Maybe a bit of a personal bias.
But also: We know that anchor shards can be dangerous to people who have them. Native Thedosians like Sina, but there's also been theories about the shard being Rifters' tie back to the fade. That removal of the anchor could keep us here in Thedas. A theory, but a well-sketched one. Knowing more about how the anchors interact with an individual's biology could do more than just satisfy curiosity; it could offer a better prognosis, maybe, for someone whose condition takes a turn.
Maybe you ask and Riftwatch majority vote says no. Then presenting it to our allies becomes moot. But I think there's enough potential upside that it's worth asking internally, and if there's support, going from there.
I won't say never, but I've thought about it and landed on "no" for right now. It's a personal thing, pros and cons, but ... I think, for me, that the ability to close rifts is still important to the war effort. Being able to interact with the Fade that way does a lot of good, and a finite number of us can. And losing an arm would hinder my other work, too. I'm willing to carry the risk of vanishing again to offset those drawbacks.
[A little shrug.]
If it starts to spread or if I develop new symptoms, I'll reassess. Neither answer is perfect, and I certainly don't blame anyone who'd rather remove the shard and feel confident their tie to Thedas is permanent.
If the flesh could be hollowed out and restored, with function retained. I cannot fathom how it could be done with so devastating an injury as would be required, and how painful it would be. The risk of infection alone, even before considering the complexity of the structures, is immense.
( Herian looks to Cosima, and as unchanging as the affect of the Tranquil are, her pause might suggest a greater weight. )
If rifters are no longer themselves in their own world, but a separate being born of the Fade, then to disappear jeopardises your existence. Does your existence in Thedas hold so little joy that you consider yourself only in terms of your contribution to Rift Watch?
( Pot, this Kettle, Kettle, this is Pot, have fun, get to know each other )
[Her first reaction is genuine surprise, before it's tempered by the knowledge of why Herian might have heard it that way.]
...no, that's not what I'm saying at all.
[A small breath as she considers her next words.]
I don't want to die. And even though I came back, after the first time I vanished, most people don't. I think considering it a death is fair. But I don't think most of the people native to Thedas want to die either, especially. I assume that, for most of us opposing Corypheus, we believe that putting ourselves at some level of risk is worthwhile for the good it will do to the world as a whole.
Keeping my anchor is a risk I'm running, the same way people in Forces risk being killed by the Venatori or red templars. Not because we don't value our own lives, but because we're weighing them against what Corypheus could do to the world as a whole. My life is important, but so are the many people who would die or face oppression under Corypheus who aren't in a position to fight back.
I did not intend my question as a casting of judgement or expression of doubt. If it conveyed either, I would apologise. Further, I drew an extreme conclusion with insufficient evidence.
( It might merit a wry, self-aware smiles, before the severing. She does not smile, now, because the effect rarely seems to be correct. )
Thank you for explaining so precisely. I have difficulty following, and extrapolating without inclination to absolutes.
( Herian looks at her hands, the lines and creases starkly highlighted with clay, and back to Cosima. )
Perhaps I can still fight. Like you and others; not for lack of value in our lives, but for the significance of the common purpose.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Can you give me an example question? What specifically are you trying to get at?
[Not skeptical: curious.]
no subject
Multiple points, and I know not if the ultimate end is one that would be dismissed outright were I in my past state.
( With emotions, feelings. She can logically approach concepts, however, logic is not able to track all nuances. )
The recent survey on how best to accommodate rifters in the case of their passing overlapped with my efforts to advance my own learning, and craft materials to better assist Doctor Strange with explaining required care and training others.
( Having this conversation alongside a literal attempt to render musculature in clay seems appropriate. )
I questioned first if such efforts would be advanced if members of Riftwatch were willing to authorise, in the case of their passing, use of their remains for study, whether native or rifter. However, I recognise that this could be an inherent violation of cultural needs, and am reminded of times past when we spoke on ethical violations conducted with the justification of advancement in your world. Learning first of ethics in other worlds seemed the necessary first step.
( Herian is very still. )
There is danger in being without sentiment and emotion. Logic would suggest that using remains is practical and justified, that protest could be dismissed as the study would support the protecting of lives in the future, yet I would not have drawn this conclusion, were I not as I am.
no subject
[She considers how to arrange her thoughts for a moment.]
In the world I come from, and I'm pretty sure the one Strange comes from, we've learned a lot from the remains of people who have died. I'd be shocked if no one in Thedas had ever tried it, but given the reach of the Chantry, I suspect it's been pretty secret. That said. Especially for people with anchor shards, there could be some upsides.
Assuming it's something Strange thinks would be practically useful, which I'd want to check with him before we even bring it up, I think the way you've got to approach it is around informed consent, yeah? The assumption is we don't do it unless someone freely says it's alright without any pressure. And I think for you, it sounds like the thing to be mindful of is not trying to like ... argue them out of their feelings or beliefs. Just because you see the logic of it doesn't mean everyone else needs to be convinced at any cost. Right?
[The question is a real prompt, Cosima studying Herian's face to try to gauge if she's made her point clearly.]
no subject
( For all that flatness in her tone, the absence of the emphatic, she understands the message conveyed. )
Logic is not an objective truth that outweighs autonomy.
( Gaze impassive, she gestures to the sunburst brand. )
This was the result of perceived logic. Perspective and agenda can warp logic and see fact misapplied or poorly represented, akin to the need for blind studies and placebo. Our duty is to ensure knowledge is not prioritised over autonomy.
( A beat. )
Comparing such studies to blood magic to stir fear would allow the Chantry to strengthen their position across Thedas; more than like there are those holding power who would embrace such tactics. Implications on how enemies of Riftwatch could undermine us should be weighed, as well, especially where the involvement of shards is concerned.
no subject
The blood magic point is fair. I think it's probably something worth letting Diplomacy weigh in on, though right now that necessarily means the entire division. My own instinct is that we should get buy-in from outside the organization, maybe. Promises to share what we learn with allies, for example or ... I worry that if we just hide it, that's going to leave us vulnerable if it leaks. On the other hand, I don't have the same knee-jerk reactions to things that seem like blood magic but aren't, so maybe other people will have a better sense how that would go over.
We know the Venatori have been experimenting on any shard-bearer they can get their hands on for years. Your point is clear that we have to know, going in, not only how we're different but how we're going to present that difference if we need to.
no subject
( Cosima had been in the number taken. The memory is foggy, like frost crawling over a window pane. Objectively a negative occurrence, from memory, an event that caused immense fear and inflicted horror for many. How much she truly remembers, then, could be debatable. )
Drawing ire through misunderstanding or agenda would undermine the war against Corypheus, as well. In your opinion, do the potential benefits of such a project justify the risks and resources required?
no subject
But also: We know that anchor shards can be dangerous to people who have them. Native Thedosians like Sina, but there's also been theories about the shard being Rifters' tie back to the fade. That removal of the anchor could keep us here in Thedas. A theory, but a well-sketched one. Knowing more about how the anchors interact with an individual's biology could do more than just satisfy curiosity; it could offer a better prognosis, maybe, for someone whose condition takes a turn.
Maybe you ask and Riftwatch majority vote says no. Then presenting it to our allies becomes moot. But I think there's enough potential upside that it's worth asking internally, and if there's support, going from there.
no subject
I can commence drafting proposals, and consult with yourself and Doctor Strange for adjustments.
( A pause, one piece of information sticking in her mind. )
Would you remove the shard?
no subject
[A little shrug.]
If it starts to spread or if I develop new symptoms, I'll reassess. Neither answer is perfect, and I certainly don't blame anyone who'd rather remove the shard and feel confident their tie to Thedas is permanent.
no subject
( Herian looks to Cosima, and as unchanging as the affect of the Tranquil are, her pause might suggest a greater weight. )
If rifters are no longer themselves in their own world, but a separate being born of the Fade, then to disappear jeopardises your existence. Does your existence in Thedas hold so little joy that you consider yourself only in terms of your contribution to Rift Watch?
( Pot, this Kettle, Kettle, this is Pot, have fun, get to know each other )
no subject
...no, that's not what I'm saying at all.
[A small breath as she considers her next words.]
I don't want to die. And even though I came back, after the first time I vanished, most people don't. I think considering it a death is fair. But I don't think most of the people native to Thedas want to die either, especially. I assume that, for most of us opposing Corypheus, we believe that putting ourselves at some level of risk is worthwhile for the good it will do to the world as a whole.
Keeping my anchor is a risk I'm running, the same way people in Forces risk being killed by the Venatori or red templars. Not because we don't value our own lives, but because we're weighing them against what Corypheus could do to the world as a whole. My life is important, but so are the many people who would die or face oppression under Corypheus who aren't in a position to fight back.
no subject
( It might merit a wry, self-aware smiles, before the severing. She does not smile, now, because the effect rarely seems to be correct. )
Thank you for explaining so precisely. I have difficulty following, and extrapolating without inclination to absolutes.
( Herian looks at her hands, the lines and creases starkly highlighted with clay, and back to Cosima. )
Perhaps I can still fight. Like you and others; not for lack of value in our lives, but for the significance of the common purpose.